On the lines of the model Nikaah Nama.
Bismillah-e-rehman-e-rahim-As-salaam-valekum.
Well I have been interacting on Islam with 'Naushad' a very close colleague of mine who happens to be a Muslim but looks at other religions with some unexpected tolerance. He condemns the triple talaq in sleep and under the influence of liquor. He looks forward to convert a non muslim to a muslim. And he displays extreme patience and acceptance of other religious points of view, but on certain beliefs he is a pure muslim. Meanwhile somedays back on helpline I attended Yousuf, a pure Muslim too who could have done the triple talaq, but respects the Indian constitution too, was quite evidently, finally, falsely charged with 498a by his wife last month.
Meanwhile, Rakhee Sister of mine Tasneem who calls me bhai tells me about the vulnerability of Muslim women in this institution of marriage, She used to quote the helpless state of her aunt who is with a souten (her husband’s 2nd wife). And therefore I used lure her to become Tulsi from Tasneem on every rakhi :-) Jokes... well not exactly....
And my wonderful friend who is a hindu vaishnav but has married to her long time love, then a moderate muslim and now a fanatic. She shares her heart out of her insecurities on her hindu practices of chanting Gayatri Mantra and her hubby now oppossing the same, especially after a kid, she fears that her dissapproving husband might get a second wife of a Muslim family, while she is still his wife as Islam permits that.
While all of them agree that my plight of 498a is valid, I too agree the plights of these women who know what 498a is, but won’t use it. I have been seriously wondering on the extreme laws, permutations and imbalance of women's freedom in the same society, I Feel it is more or less jumbled up on all strata’s leading us practically nowhere. Rather we get more complex and jumbled conclusions that we perceive as solutions. This calls for a desperate need of "Uniform Civil Code."
Well, but I have read a practical solution to the triple talaq problem and certain regulations of the otherwise much more practical Islam that has Meher and also does not rule out Talaq. That also has a right of the property attached to the girl child too. Hats off on certain issues.
Insha Allah, The practical solution as I have been reading is a “model-nikaah-nama” that will have some amendments on those issues that are cleverly misused. And another practical solution suggested to this is involving the Victm Muslim women or almost victims who have been victimised, they would best know in what way they have been victimized and possibly could lead to solutions to those issues. That would be the optimum way to reach solution. Ask the patient what are the side effects and bring about relevant amendments that works out a win:win.
As they lose the moral, and the primary objective of all these communications is to appeal to the conscience of the well-meaning members of the society and remind and reestablish to all of us of the fundamental concept of the legal jurisprudence that thousand guilty men may escape the clutches of law but one innocent man should not get punished for a crime he has never committed. Malimath committee under NDA regime had attempted reforms but in vain, now that more and more misuse is getting proven, Malimath committe should be reappointed and the IPC section 498a be re-drafted or and antidote for misusers be reintroduced, since misuse has become more and more common.
Your thoughts….
Khuda Hafiz,
Jinesh Zaveri.
Well I have been interacting on Islam with 'Naushad' a very close colleague of mine who happens to be a Muslim but looks at other religions with some unexpected tolerance. He condemns the triple talaq in sleep and under the influence of liquor. He looks forward to convert a non muslim to a muslim. And he displays extreme patience and acceptance of other religious points of view, but on certain beliefs he is a pure muslim. Meanwhile somedays back on helpline I attended Yousuf, a pure Muslim too who could have done the triple talaq, but respects the Indian constitution too, was quite evidently, finally, falsely charged with 498a by his wife last month.
Meanwhile, Rakhee Sister of mine Tasneem who calls me bhai tells me about the vulnerability of Muslim women in this institution of marriage, She used to quote the helpless state of her aunt who is with a souten (her husband’s 2nd wife). And therefore I used lure her to become Tulsi from Tasneem on every rakhi :-) Jokes... well not exactly....
And my wonderful friend who is a hindu vaishnav but has married to her long time love, then a moderate muslim and now a fanatic. She shares her heart out of her insecurities on her hindu practices of chanting Gayatri Mantra and her hubby now oppossing the same, especially after a kid, she fears that her dissapproving husband might get a second wife of a Muslim family, while she is still his wife as Islam permits that.
While all of them agree that my plight of 498a is valid, I too agree the plights of these women who know what 498a is, but won’t use it. I have been seriously wondering on the extreme laws, permutations and imbalance of women's freedom in the same society, I Feel it is more or less jumbled up on all strata’s leading us practically nowhere. Rather we get more complex and jumbled conclusions that we perceive as solutions. This calls for a desperate need of "Uniform Civil Code."
Well, but I have read a practical solution to the triple talaq problem and certain regulations of the otherwise much more practical Islam that has Meher and also does not rule out Talaq. That also has a right of the property attached to the girl child too. Hats off on certain issues.
Insha Allah, The practical solution as I have been reading is a “model-nikaah-nama” that will have some amendments on those issues that are cleverly misused. And another practical solution suggested to this is involving the Victm Muslim women or almost victims who have been victimised, they would best know in what way they have been victimized and possibly could lead to solutions to those issues. That would be the optimum way to reach solution. Ask the patient what are the side effects and bring about relevant amendments that works out a win:win.
Similary how about involving the 498a victims in reframing the 498a law that takes care of the vulnerable women and at the same time cannot be misused, it should not blindly punish the accused that also involves many innocent victims these days and by the time they are proven innocent the moral, financial and ethical damage is already done by compulsory arrests of the parents, siblings husband without investigation. And are so exhausted that after acquittal they prefer to get rid of the surpanakha rather than fighting back.
As they lose the moral, and the primary objective of all these communications is to appeal to the conscience of the well-meaning members of the society and remind and reestablish to all of us of the fundamental concept of the legal jurisprudence that thousand guilty men may escape the clutches of law but one innocent man should not get punished for a crime he has never committed. Malimath committee under NDA regime had attempted reforms but in vain, now that more and more misuse is getting proven, Malimath committe should be reappointed and the IPC section 498a be re-drafted or and antidote for misusers be reintroduced, since misuse has become more and more common.
Your thoughts….
Khuda Hafiz,
Jinesh Zaveri.
posted by IndianHusbands | 11:07 PM
18 Comments:
nice, comfy place you got here :)..
"Malimath committee under NDA regime had attempted reforms but in vain, now that more and more misuse is getting proven, Malimath committe should be reappointed and the IPC section 498a be re-drafted or and antidote for misusers be reintroduced, since misuse has become more and more common."
- Strong dought, as the same does not hit the beally of our Politicians , corropt Police and criminals.
- That is the reaosn we can see TADA/POTA changed, effort to change the Profit holding post norms..etc.
But 498a will not change as the same hit the common people, it hit our own mother, it hit our own sister , it hit our own child..
That is called Indian Legal terorism and how storng thier base and ground work.
are you for real? Did you actually 'think' before writing this nonsensical post?
lord.
Hi,
Vannakkam, Thanks for the comment. I would like to clarify one thing.
Only those who support/approve of Misuse of 498a will find my post(s) nonsensical.
Only If you support misuse of this law on innocents that accuses the innocents of crime that they have not committed, you may find my post/s offensive, nonsensical etc.
As in all the posts I have tried to explain why there are ammendments required in this law that would definately not harm the interest of the real victimised women, punish the real culprit and at the same time protect innocents on either side.
I would like to correct myself if anywhere in my post/s, if I have violated this. Do let me know. As I do not want to be misunderstood.
The supreme court of India has called this Misuse as Legal Terrorism, and Misusers are therefore obvious Legal Terrorists. You cannot support this, no one can.
I am not against 498a, as I agree that problem is prevailing for which this law was made. For that matter nobody should be against it.
But there is nothing that prevents the misuse of this law. The gross misuse is taking place which even the Supreme Court recognises but still nothing is being done.
Infact, I have come across neutral feminists too, who have agreed on the misuse and have condemned it too. Their prime concern though, is no different then the other feminists. And they are doing a fine job in helping women in trouble.
Now if I will name them they will be defamed. So I won't. I had to delete some comments some days back. As it was badly represented by crafting such a situation.
My intentions are to fight against this Legal Terrorism.
My parents too(also Sr. Citizens) have gone through your comment, and have asked for your support to them on this, if you have realised our stand.
Humble Request: If I have gone overboard in conveying their message, then please ignore it, as I won't be able to bear them being ridiculed by your group or anyone. But they felt it was worth it to attempt an explanation of their predicament. With hopes that one would understand on clarification
I sincerely wish you a very good life. :-)
Awaiting your stand.
Well well..Mr and Mrs Zaveri why are you feeling so upset? Over what? It is a fact that there are people hiding inside SIF who have taken dowry. Maybe your son has not taken any, that does not mean others haven’t. Your son’s presence in SIF is not a yardstick to make criminals feel innocent.
Mrs Zaveri I have known battered woman who are single mothers, struggling to earn and feed their children because their own husband does not want to take the onus of a responsible parent. These men want to wash off their hands and refuse to even caress their own child in courtrooms which is appalling. This is because the wife failed to bring dowry. And guess what …all of them join sif to seek refuge.
Btw….Jinesh yourself have left no stone unturned to ridicule ad tarnish the image of other people’s wife on their sites knowing fully well about your character assassination remarks & strategies. Maybe you ought to make confessions too.(abiding by your Gandhiji’s quote)
May I also say that if a thousand woman who file a false case(if any acc to SIF) go scot free, then the one woman who genuinely files it…we are supporting the likes of that one battered woman. Justice will prevail
Jai Hind and Jai Jinendra
With Due respects, My replies in Square Brackets and bold. Infact I have tried explaining this to you each and everytime till now I am once again attempting.
Pls do not mistake this as a debate but this is a discussion.
* * *
Well well..Mr and Mrs Zaveri why are you feeling so upset? Over what?
[We are upset about the misuse of the law.]
It is a fact that there are people hiding inside SIF who have taken dowry. Maybe your son has not taken any, that does not mean others haven’t. Your son’s presence in SIF is not a yardstick to make criminals feel innocent.
[The hidden dowry takers in SIF is a separate debate from what was discussed. But definitely it is a debate. You can say that only if you are sure. And if you are sure you should bear the guts to name them, You can name them personally through mail. Once that is done next action can be jointly planned out.
Further that won’t stop me from guiding the innocents and exposing the modus operandi of misuse and discuss loopholes. Again on Presence of Dowry takers in SIF (Which is not ruled out, but yet to be proved), not ruled out because even your presence in SIF proves that we trust people on the entry level comment and we will soon correct us on that. How different are you from them who do not disclose the correct identity?
Again suspected presence of these Dowry takers cannot be a yardstick to call all innocents criminal]
Mrs Zaveri I have known battered woman who are single mothers, struggling to earn and feed their children because their own husband does not want to take the onus of a responsible parent. These men want to wash off their hands and refuse to even caress their own child in courtrooms which is appalling. This is because the wife failed to bring dowry. And guess what …all of them join sif to seek refuge.
[They have seen more of those battered women than you and me, and I too have seen and agree with you that there are genuinely harassed women. I am in touch with such a group of women who do not disagree that the law cannot be misused. I can introduce you to those as they are the victims of dirty charges not only by their husbands but also from the some commentators on the blog. (as a result I had to delete the comments).
I agree, Those dowry seekers are the reasons for such a law. The case 3 males which are identified by this blog as a sad lot. But the misusers are the cause of this kind of a voice too.
On SIF refuge? You need to name the ones if you claim this.
Further what do you have to say about those women who do not allow their husband, a father to meet their child by her own self deceiving and justifying reasons?]
Btw….Jinesh yourself have left no stone unturned to ridicule ad tarnish the image of other people’s wife on their sites knowing fully well about your character assassination remarks & strategies. Maybe you ought to make confessions too.(abiding by your Gandhiji’s quote)
[I am not afraid to admit my mistakes and correct them. But be specific. Where? As far as my articles are concerned they are specific to situations and on the attitudes of people and loopholes in the system. On other sites and wifes of the husbands etc. Pls be specific. Where?
Further, I have no regrets to have talked about the misuse, as it is like belling the cat who misuses the law. As far as character assassination is concerned I have never done that, as those who are characterless it is just impossible to do it on them, they rather need one. And the genuine ones have never been attacked by me. For I have always respected their character. I have always recognized the victim women too, thus my articles and view points and fairly balanced on either sides, you just can't say that]
May I also say that if a thousand woman who file a false case(if any acc to SIF) go scot free, then the one woman who genuinely files it…we are supporting the likes of that one battered woman. Justice will prevail
[We all support that one battered women, Infact, to be accurate as per the official statistics it is not 1 out of 1000 but 20 out of 1000 that amounts to 2% conviction. Justice should definately prevail. Your battle/vision/ agenda should not stop here but we should go on till innocents on either side are given a separate identity.]
Jai Hind and Jai Jinendra
[Jai Hind and Jai Jinendra]
[PS: I am open to a healthy dialogue by email, and after these clarifications, pls do not get in to the same old debate rather let us together do what needs to be done, you and me infact do not differ on basic issues and hence I see this scope, let us come to actual terms rather than this issueless debate, rest is your choice to perceive it in the right sense or distorted.]
I have no clue what and where you had discussions with me. I do not belong to SIF(whatever that meant by you)
No I am not going to name anyone. We know , you know and I know you know too.
SIF claims to have all innocents...but I disagree.
It is upto you to find out. Maybe when they get a term by judge, you will know.
Do you remember a site called indianwoman. Mr and Mrs Zaveri(sorry but you do not want to know what these men have done to us on that one site). If a comment by Dee disturbed you so much, you are going to be extremely hurt by that one.
It seems there is no point in having a dialogue with you. Since you do not want to second my initiation. You just want to perpetually debate. I have been quite resonable and now it is your turn and if you do not want then just leave it.
Further since you claim that you know the dowry takers and you do not want us to know, then you go and fight with them and not me, I am not in favour of them.
If you are innocent, I am with you. I have never ruled out the dowry menace. Yes it prevails but the law is unable to punish the real culprits and innocents suffer. But since you want to maintain the distance then so be it.
On Indianwomen... well I am in no way associated with that site though I have left comments on certain articles. My blog has no link to that site. Further if it is targetting bad women then they may feel bad. You should not be worried. And I just do not want to discuss that since I am in no way associated.
Regarding Dee, You seem to have forgotten under what name you had given that hurting statement. Dee's comment has never undergone moderation. There is no link here and kindly do not perpetuate a new baseless allegation.
I am still open to a healthy dialogue ignoring the rest. But if you do not want to change your stand then I cannot help any further.
All the best. May Justice prevail.
Indianwoman...you have left comments knowing fully well.....who that was by and who created it. You tarnished a mother;s image. Do not say you are no way associated with that site...your best satayagrahi pal is associated with that site.
Associated??hmmm wrong word...what is the right word Jinesh?...director, author, owner, co-owner? and something called strategy.
I wish Gandhiji was alove today..he would never have let you used his quote.
Check out Dee's latest comments. We are all there.
And yes Jinesh I know you are innocent with regard to dowry. That much 'judging sense"(unlike you with regard to indianwoman) we girls have on you and some of your very very very few SIF people.
Very soon our paths will cross and where we will have to work together. Probably then you will be in a dilema to choose the right thing...and mind you it wont be easy.
Keep reading all the real indian woman sites and newspapers. Read between the sentences.
Jai Jinendra
When I say I am not associated with that site it means I am not director, author, owner, co-owner.
Leaving comments does not associate you with any blog. You leaving comments on my blog and being a member of SIF (Yes you are, as you keep on talking about my Gandhi Remark) does not associate you with me.
Please stop majoring in minor things. Stop blindly accusing. I have always realised your frustration and I have therefore being reasonable. I am fully open to a dialogue that is minus accusations and is constructive.
About Mothers Image now what is that? I am not clear. If I have done anything that is giving wrong message I would correct myself. Do let me know.
About Dee's Comment out there, let it be there and not here.
My dear Friend, I have got my mission of helping and guiding innocents that also include victimised women and also mothers. Please do not make it a habit like those women who know only to accuse rather than speak. Please avoid that try a dialogue it will work better.
I would be very happy to work together. Do not worry about me I am with innocent and against any misusers of Law and also against Dowry Takers. And I am confident for the same corrections from your end too.
I have all the innocents in my prayers.
Jai Jinendra and Michchamidukkadam.
still being subborn are you?
How about when a specific person by that name indian woman leaving comments in your blog and you replying to it when knowing-fully- well.
See am not in court and neither do I have to poove anything. You know best and we know too.
When you reply to me ...you fully-know that I am a woman.
Therefore you wrote comments to show someone(women) in poor light knowing-fully-well.
(at your very first comment we thought you and your parents were actually hurt..but I think we were wrong)
Pulezzzzzz am not a member of SIF...on the left hand side of this blog there are some quotes and everyone calling them Satyagrahi!! Did you realize that?
Why are you so stubborn?
You have always displayed inconsistency in discussing. Only accusations, seems that what you know and have mastered it. Jumping from one topic to the other.
Only fault finding (even if there is no fault). Nothing else, I regret to have spent my precious time talking to you. But I shall correct myself on that.
Real women articles? Huh? Why don't you talk about the innocent mothers who are jailed? There is no and absolutely no point in talking with you.
Just forget it. You hidden SIF Member you do not have the guts to even disclose your correct identity. because you do not want to come to terms, you just like to argue and put others down. You just know how to take a wrong meaning out of anything. That is why you talk about confessions which is not mentioned here and in my inbox.
I know you are doing the noble job of spamming my links on the blogs of others with sarcasm. Go do that.
I would now only strike a conversation with you if you stop being stubborn and disclose your identity and talk constructive. Else go to open blogs like DC.
Reading articles about indian women? Well there are atleast articles written about some of them. Why do you Ass-u-me that we do not read them, like they do it in 498a. My heart crys for them. But why should I tell you? An unknown person, who will now come up with a new misinterpretation with inconsistency.
If you have guts to face the reality, then Come to me I will show you undocumented stuff in real, of the sufferer victims, old age parents I bet you will cry if you have a heart. You too would hate the fact and people who do it. And would agree that victims are on both the sides.
If you have gone through my blog then there have been comments where dowry supporters (definately out with a mischevious attitude) were not welcomed. But again I pose a risk of misinterpretation. And there is no medicine to that.
I think it is Enough. Its futile. You won't stop tarnishing my site and Image, You will mis-interprete it. You have no feelings for the ones who are exhausted in confessing that they are here to fight against wrong. You seem to have made up your mind to just bout. But I am not scared just tell me that I am suppose to listen and you want to talk.
But still, if you change your mind then I am still open to a healthy dialogue.
Why? Why are you finding it so hard to accept that this law can and is misused on a father mother and brother and sister?
No more comments with misinterpretations. Pleaseeeeeee.
Jai Satchitanand. I bow down to your Pure soul. I hope you will come to terms soon. Till then no more discussion of this types.
Neha, just loved the way you got a piece of Jinesh's mind. He has rightly disarmed you, literally. You are royally beaten up now. You are down, bleeding.
I guess people like you are important in the society so that we can show it to the society that there are thousands of Neha present to ruin people's lives.
All I can say to you is that you are a complete loser, a failure. You can't even know what is right and what is wrong. I wonder who will be interested to even talk to an immature person like yourself.
You should thank Jinesh for respecting you so much against your absurd non-sensical baseless remarks. Consider taking a counselling from a psychologist and maybe after that you might come down to the reality from your wild wild fantasy world where you see yourself as man-killer.
You and your brohters and take a hike.
Misinterpretations??? huh nice way to change the flow of conversation.
I repeat for the last time
"still being subborn are you?
How about when a specific person by that name indian woman leaving comments in your blog and you replying to it when knowing-fully- well.
See am not in court and neither do I have to poove anything. You know best and we know too.
When you reply to me ...you fully-know that I am a woman.
Therefore you wrote comments to show someone(women) in poor light knowing-fully-well.
(at your very first comment we thought you and your parents were actually hurt..but I think we were wrong)
Pulezzzzzz am not a member of SIF...on the left hand side of this blog there are some quotes and everyone calling them Satyagrahi!! Did you realize that?"
I know it will not make a difference as Dee correctly said and I dont care if it hurts anyone. You dont like to see reality and dont want to face it. You dont want to see real things.
I wasted my time here.
Go read unreal indianwoman.com and all of you can write posts on it and comment yourself. It gives us a good laugh on you all being idiots to think it will come across as real to the world.
If ever have the guts to meet the real person who was battered by her husband and is a single mom now, you know where to contact her.
Do not talk about disclosing real names. Even your co-blogger never disclosed her real name. SO?
For more on men exposing your drama and statistics
http://sriramr.blogspot.com/2006/06/god-save-family.html
AND AND
Even other people who are not related to SIF but are victims of sif , your own brothers have no feelings for the ones who are exhausted in confessing that they are here to fight against wrong and help a poor child.
http://desicritics.org/2006/06/15/071110.php
Hope GOD gives you the strenght to face the truth that is very very bitter.
Wonderful receiving hate mails!!!
Ghost??
Ghost is that site where you tarnished a woman .
The one who murdered someones character is a murderer no doubt.
But what are your views on the ones who were active witnesses to the murder (by commenting?)
People are upset with all of you especially some of your notorious SIFs trolling on blogs uninvited using filthy language.(no it is against our policy to name anyone, I will not) . Sending mass mails to us on other yahoo groups regularly in the nameof SIF, vulgar mails, virus mails, pron mails. You know who that is. Infact you have quoted him too in your infamous post.
The men and woman (real statistics) are upset with the content of the posts.
God Help you
Jai Jinendra
signing off.
deleting comments huh.
It is time to shut swarup once and for all on Sakhi's blog by giving him this example.
Hiding moderator huh?? No no no wait..hiding SIF moderator.
Nothing better than letting swarup being let down by his own lovely brother's practical example? Oh it would be wonderful on DC in front of everyone to expose this little coward activity of you..hopefully after this his confidence with break and he will get into trauma..after all he is a 2 year old GHOST OF KUSH.
It seems some kind of gender war is going on here.
Anyways, I just came by to leave a comment for Jinesh.
Jinesh, you have left a comment in my blog with a link leading to your blog. I must appreciate that you do have a knack of blowing up secrets out in the open especially those secrets related to women.
Your blogs are interesting and also informative. I like it. Keep it up.
And dude, this gender war is nothing new. It's the same everywhere. Keep going buddy. All the best.
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